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OK, 116 passengers, one guy off the deepend…….
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/01/24/airline.bite.ap/
I hear it at work. I have seen it written here. Passengers would NEVER allow another 911…. Here we have a guy trying to get into the flightdeck door, and anyone want to guess how many of the 116 passengers jumped up to help the flight crew? ONE…. One passenger. In my mind, a true hero at that, but what were the other 115 thinking? OK, the airplane is on the ground, but if this madman gets into the flightdeck all he has to do is push the throttles up pull back yoke and even if he doesn’t know how to fly, he can crash that airplane.
Goes back to the sheep wolves and sheepdog threads………
A couple of added notes,
I for one KNOW if ANY of my KM brothers or sisters were on that plane the guy would have been neutralized early on…. (I sometimes use the term neutralize instead of killed but in this case I mean JUST what is said….)
Second note, I heard these radio DJs, (The Jersey Guys) They figured, ok, FLL, to EWR, must have been a bunch of jews on board thus why there was no reaction…… My first thought was do they have a clue…… Israel, KM, Jews…… OK, it really boils down to uneducated Gumbas, and I couldn’t call and get through and educate them……… Not that you can’t learn a lot of self def from the Soprannos….. but, there is a lack of respect there…..
JC
As a math major, I have to correct myself…… (And you all wondered why I couldn’t spell….)
If there were 116 pax, and one went of the depend, and one responded, what were the other one hundred and FOURTEEN doing?????
I’m guessing the passengers were stunned. Often times it takes a few minutes to register what is happening. Add to that the fact most people aren’t experienced with physically fighting another person, and you’ve got 114 people stuck in the headlights.
Though I’d like to think that if this ever happened on a flight I was on, the act of one person getting up to fight would inspire others to jump in and help.
also, there are only so many people who can get to someone in an aisle of an airplane. So maybe there were people lined up waiting their turn (think Airplane the movie) 😆
It does say \”…as passengers (plural) and crew members tried to restrain him…\”. So looks as if more than one passenger jumped into action.
With the small isles on an aircraft, I doubt that anyone else could have got close enough to render help anyway – maybe even caused more confusion than help. With 116 passengers scatered through out the plane, can you imagine what would happen if even only half of them tried to help – mass confusion – hindering the crew – and probalby a lot of injuries to the passengers. Think about this: If you are a crew member trying to subdue a routy passenger or terrorist (or even a passenger trying to help the crew), and you see more passengers rushing down the asile, how do you know they are not the bad guys buddies rushing to assist him – or they may be more terrorist if that is tha case. With your adrenilin flowing under the heat of the moment, you may turn to defend yourself (attack) the very person that is rushing to help you and the crew.
My thoughts are, if I were right there where the altercation is taking place and the crew or another passenger (if that be the case) needed help to fight off or subdue another passenger, I would definitly try to help. However, if I were in the back of the airplane and the confrontation was forward, I think I would sit it out for a while. Don’t forget, there may be an Air Marshall on the plane somewhere. Also, If I were in the back and I saw someone in back jump up and I thought he was trying to help the badguy forward, I would try to stop him and hope that another passenger or two would come to my aide if I got into trouble.
Another report on the same incident:
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/nation/13703071.htm\”…Before he went berserk on Continental Flight 408, Troy Rigby told fellow passengers he was claustrophobic. He suffered from schizophrenia, had been committed three times in the past two years to mental institutions and was headed to New Jersey to see a physician, family members said…\”
Yet some of his other family members were unaware of his mental illness?!?!
I don’t understand why airlines don’t ask screening questions about your mental state. I mean this guy could’ve seen a doctor in Florida. Why did he need to fly back to NJ? Wouldn’t his urgency be an even bigger indicator that immediate help would’ve been better instead of putting this guy on a plane?
And another question:
Does anyone else not think that maybe some terrorist scumbugs might try this type of thing as a probe of our security or as a distraction while the real crime is being perpetrated?All good points……
And yes, it is very likely that distraction techniques will be used if another terrorist attempt is made on an airplane.
Any LEOs on an airplane should LOUDLY and clearly identify themselves. If there are LEOs let them handle it unless asked for help as you will be treated as a threat if you run down the isle to help while they are taking down the subject….
JC
On the 9/11 flights, the passengers and crew weren’t of the mindset to resist, I think. Everyone was geared to cooperate, coz who would have thought the hijackers main goal was to crash the planes?
All that changed afterwards. Remember the shoe bomber dude? Virtually the entire plane bum-rushed that guy when he presented a threat.
\”I don’t understand why airlines don’t ask screening questions about your mental state.\”
Great, more intrusiveness and erosion of privacy. I’m thrilled. 🙄
Besides, do crazy (is that the medical term?) people know they’re crazy, and if so, do they tell others?
Prior to 9/11 everyone preached to comply with terrorists. As most hostage situations involving aircraft end with little loss of life. This is what allowed the whole setup of 9/11.
As a KM practitioner if I am taking on multiple opponents my favorite place to do it would be in a very tight enclosed space (like an airplane) It offers little mobility to multiple assailants and maximum oppurtunities for me.
As posted in topics before, most people are sheep, some are wolves, some are sheep-dogs. Most people dont understand or know how to deal with violence or a person freaking out. They would rather not get involved. I would like to change the theory a little bit to a better reference though.
I personally feel that most people are cattle, some are cowboys, some are rustlers. The cattle would rather go along on their everyday thing regardless. The cowboy has to watch out for rustlers and other predators, and the rustler just wants to take whats not his. Here is where my theory differs. Most people are cattle, however, if something spooks em they will stampede. Once one is started it is very hard to stop, and woe be unto whom is in the way.
Usually, no…which is why they don’t ask that question 🙂 They ask \”have you been to a doctor about any psychiatric concerns within the past 2 years?\” etc
Ron, one of my favorite utilizations of livestock in combat in a movie is in \”The Rundown\” where the Rock sets up his (impossible) assault on a town by clearing out extraneous bad guys with a stampede beforehand.
Re:
KravRon ~ \”Most people are cattle, however, if something spooks em they will stampede. Once one is started it is very hard to stop, and woe be unto whom is in the way.\”
Reminds me of that flight coming into O’Hare just weeks after 9/11 where a mentally unstable individual started unraveling. A number of passengers got up to subdue him.
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